Letters to Christ's Beloved Church

I do realize that these things have been going back and forth for Generations. For whoever is interested, here is my perspective.😊

Romans 9:10-13 ESV
[10] And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, [11] though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— [12] she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” [13] As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Thought One: This passage speaks of election. “The older will serve the younger.” This passage does NOT literally say regarding election, “The older will be eternally damned and the younger eternally saved.”

Can everyone agree on what words are actually written and what words are man’s understanding or interpretation of Scripture?😊 God’s original Word is perfect. Our understanding here and, even at times our English translations, is/are not perfect….

Now for verse 13, As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Malachi 1:2-5 ESV
[2]  “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob [3] but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” [4] If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the Lord of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.’” [5] Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the Lord beyond the border of Israel!”

Please understand that both Jacob and Esau sinned. Jacob was a liar. But Esau was godless. He did not count the knowledge of God worth retaining. But traded his inheritance, the blessing of God, for a bowl of porridge.

So in my understanding there are two things going on here:

1. Election of God, God’s Sovereignty above man’s choice. Normally in that culture the older son got more and the younger was subservient to the older, but God lifted up the younger, the lesser by cultural standards and this leadership position was ordained by God before either one was born. In order that God’s election might stand.
2. Here’s where it gets gooey: the next verse in Romans says, “As it is written, Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated.” And Calvin and many people’s conclusion is to attach that verse to the concept of election in the verse before. So the understanding many have is that God elected Jacob to be loved as part of predestination and God elected Esau before the womb to be hated.

Can we agree the words in the Bible do not literally SAY, “Jacob have I elected before birth to be loved and Esau have I elected before birth to be hated.”

No matter how sure we are that that is what it means, can we agree that that is NOT what it says?😊🙏💞

So we go to the source and read the words in Micah. Correct me if I’m wrong, but nowhere in Micah do the words “before birth” or “election” come into play.

My Conclusions…

Micah is referring to Israel and Edom. Edom, though given time to repent, continued to not love God or honor him.

Edom chose to persecute Israel instead of receiving God’s loving desire to JOIN Israel in worshipping the true God, instead of

— 😪sacrificing people and children to idols

— 😪living lives focused on immoral sexual pleasure and hatred, fear and other things

God desired instead worship of Him in truth and love, as He is creator and intentional sustainer of all good thing.

He desires the best for humanity.

–💞 disciplining the body instead of giving into unhealthy cravings

–💞focusing on healthy rest and productive work for a healthy economy,

–💞caring for orphans and the poor,

–💞justice which equally judges friend and enemy, rich and poor

–💞and all the other amazing life trajectories those who love God set as priorities,

Instead of lives lived for wooden, stone, metal – or human -idols that cannot feed or help or rescue.

Instead of lives lived for

–😪constant instant self gratification, which destroys families, lives and economies and causes wars

Such downward destruction we see in the post Christian western world today.

Like Esau and Edom of old, we have been without care for the suffering induced by our worship of idols of pleasure, power and greed.😪

We do not live for God. We are like Esau, godless.😪

We have not counted the knowledge of God worth retaining in our energy, money, time or living space.😪

We have sacrificed our children to the pleasure, uncaring, unloving and greedy gods of this world and are reaping what we have sowed in broken homes, depression and suicide, prejudice, rioting in colleges, shootings in school, homelessness (not houselessness), poverty and economic collapse.😭😭😭

We, like Edom and Israel, are in desperate need of a Savior.

A Savior who rescues and saves BOTH those predestined to lead, for ALL have sinned…

….and a Savior who lovingly equally saves those NOT in the leadership/priesthood/kingship category – without putting them down in prideful arrogance, but with a servant Shepherd’s heart, in kindness, truth, justice and love.

“Jacob have I loved” – Jacob acknowledged God’s inheritance of love worth dying, and lying for — OK he was totally misguided there and paid for his sin, but He wanted God and His promises.

“Esau have I hated.” Not because he was elected to hatred before birth, my conclusion, btw😉, but because God hated the choices Esau and Edom made.

But God’s predestination for Israel was to give birth to Messiah, the Savior of the world.

💥For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and some are predestined to be justified freely through His grace.💥

😯😯😯Please, please tell me you caught that….

Honestly, I’m scared and nauseous even typing those words as Scripture, but believe God permits it to make the point.

💥That is NOT what the Bible says.💥

It says,

Romans 3:21-26 ESV
[21] But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— [22] the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [24] and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

[25] God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— [26] he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

So all have sinned and some are Justified? 💥No!💥

All have sinned and are Justified freely by His grace.

So predestination and election, my conclusion, have to do with Messianic call and leadership, “a nation of kingdom and Priests.” And again, “My house is to be a house of prayer for all nations.” The elect are predestined to lead others to Christ.

His desire was for them to be salt and light and he was appalled when He looked to find someone to stand in the gap and found no one…😪 So His own arm worked righteousness for Him.

How does God, who is love and kind, hate an unborn child and, according to some interpretations and understandings, predestin that child to eternal hell?

Does verse 13 say, “Jacob have I loved and Esau have I predestined to hell?” No! No it does not literally, actually say that, but that understanding of this Scripture has been taught for centuries as Scriptural fact and we have to seriously ask, why?

Why do we add to the Word of God (all denominations do it) our conclusions and understandings of Scripture and teach that understanding as if it is Scripture itself…?

Do we not err in our knowledge of God’s Word and His power when we add to Scripture and place our thoughts and understandings now as equal to God’s Word?😯😊

Deuteronomy 4:1-2, 5-6, 37-38 ESV
[1] “And now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the rules that I am teaching you, and do them, that you may live, and go in and take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you.

[2] You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

[5] See, I have taught you statutes and rules, as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should do them in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. [6] Keep them and do them, for that will be your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who, when they hear all these statutes, will say, ‘Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.’
[37] And because he loved your fathers and chose their offspring after them and brought you out of Egypt with his own presence, by his great power, [38] driving out before you nations greater and mightier than you, to bring you in, to give you their land for an inheritance, as it is this day,

Isaiah 49:6-12, 22-23 ESV
[6] he says: “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.” [7] Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and his Holy One, to one deeply despised, abhorred by the nation, the servant of rulers: “Kings shall see and arise; princes, and they shall prostrate themselves; because of the Lord, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you.”  [8] Thus says the Lord: “In a time of favor I have answered you; in a day of salvation I have helped you; I will keep you and give you as a covenant to the people, to establish the land, to apportion the desolate heritages, [9]  saying to the prisoners, ‘Come out,’ to those who are in darkness, ‘Appear.’ They shall feed along the ways; on all bare heights shall be their pasture; [10]  they shall not hunger or thirst, neither scorching wind nor sun shall strike them, for he who has pity on them will lead them, and by springs of water will guide them. [11]  And I will make all my mountains a road, and my highways shall be raised up. [12]  Behold, these shall come from afar, and behold, these from the north and from the west, and these from the land of Syene.”
[22] Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I will lift up my hand to the nations, and raise my signal to the peoples; and they shall bring your sons in their arms, and your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders. [23]  Kings shall be your foster fathers, and their queens your nursing mothers. With their faces to the ground they shall bow down to you, and lick the dust of your feet. Then you will know that I am the Lord; those who wait for me shall not be put to shame.”

So, are some predestined before they are born to be “vessels of wrath,” predestined for hell?

To be continued….😊😊😊